Nyssa uses the principles of Real Dialogue to interview her wife and co-host, Kelly, about how she found her way into psychology, chemical dependency work, acupuncture, and Zen Buddhism.

Kelly traces the breadcrumbs from Codependent No More on the back of the toilet and bedtime stories from the psych ward to Virginia Satir, Thich Nhat Hanh, her Zen teacher Lawson, and a whole-person practice that serves “the worried well.”

The conversation lands on embodying the work, experiencing life as art in service of others, and inviting listeners to follow their own signs and symbols toward growth.

Main Topics Covered:

How a paperback left on the back of a toilet (Codependent No More) quietly redirected a 17-year-old toward a life in mental health
The moment a music-obsessed teenager ditched a University of Miami scholarship and a possible philharmonic future to study the humanities instead
Bedtime stories from a closed psych ward in 1970s Fort Lauderdale and how they sparked a lifelong fascination with consciousness
Discovering Virginia Satir, family systems, and the radical idea that “the identified patient” is never the only one who needs to change
From Maslow and Jung to 12-step work: early influences that shaped Kelly’s view of human and divine potential
How an Intro to Religion class, Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind, and Autobiography of a Yogi reframed spirituality—and even the Jesus story
The “coming out” moment as a Buddhist on retreat with Thich Nhat Hanh, and what it feels like when a teaching truly “rings the bell” inside you
Finding a Zen teacher who felt like a lost child finding their mother—and why that relationship still brings Kelly to tears
Why Kelly believes therapists are today’s secular shamans, working at the crossroads of body, mind, and spirit
What happens when you treat the whole person: how mind–body work helps the “worried well” change jobs, relationships, and lives